Future Friday- Second Round Steals

[00:00:00] Dustin: all right, everybody. Welcome to the 298th edition of the holy Blackboard podcast. I am Dustin here in rip city and I got my man.

[00:00:20] Dillon: Oh man. I burped her and your entire introduction. So apologies for the nonprofessionalism, but I’m Sage here live and direct in Beaverton, Oregon, about two. Uh, I’m actually very excited to talk about these four prospects.

[00:00:36] Dustin: This has been a long time in the making, since we’ve started the future Friday series. Back in January, we have dedicated. Episodes to singular players, uh, almost probably over 20 players have got their individual episodes, but as we discussed prior to the show, including today’s episode, there are [00:01:00] five future Fridays left.

[00:01:01] One of them will be a mock draft. So we have to start combining players and we have been wanting to do a second round steals podcast for quite some time. And now is that time. And I am very excited as well. I love scouting second round talent, almost more so than, than lottery count. I definitely like it better than, than mid tier first round picks because when it comes to a first round pick, you’re guaranteeing that player for years, for however many million dollars, like they are on the books.

[00:01:32] So if you draft someone who is a bus, it’s going to be hard to clear your books, regardless of the low cost. A second round player is the ultimate. High reward, low risk, and you don’t have to critique them as hard because you’re looking just for somebody who can be a rotational player. Now, if they turn out to be cliff Robinson, Jerome, Kersey, dream on green, more power to those players.

[00:01:58] But if you can just get a [00:02:00] look at pat Kona tin, look at Gary Trenton, Jr. Who these are players that have developed, and they had major question marks coming out of the collegiate ranks. However, when you look at a second round prospect, it’s not what you can’t do Sage. It’s what you can do. I don’t care if you’re a six, three shooting guard.

[00:02:19] I don’t care if you’re a center who I can’t run post steps through. I don’t care if you’re a power forward who might be slightly under side. I care about what you can do. Are you a menace on the glass? Can you create your own shot? Are you a marksman from downtown? These are the types of things that I think get overlooked when Scouts are making their big boards or, you know, putting players into tears.

[00:02:41] And I get that to some extent, if you’re drafting in the top 10, you probably want to hit that home run. You want somebody who checks all the boxes, but as we’ve discussed, when we started the series, that’s why so many busts happen in the first strategy, because you try to find a player that can do that when they really can’t.

[00:02:58] And you should just be [00:03:00] trying to find players who can do one or two things really well. And that’s what we’re here today to talk about. I’ve got two players that I’m really excited about. You’ve got two players that you’re really excited about. Uh, anything else, Sage, before we get into our four prospects of the day?

[00:03:15] Dillon: Well, we’ve talked about this for a long time on our normal, holy back ward. It’s 48 minutes of consistent, good basketball. And with these four players, I truly believe that that is attainable. If the placers choose any of these players, they’re at least going to be in the rotation and probably more with a few of these prospects.

[00:03:38] And I know that this is supposed to be like the gyms section of the, uh, of our podcasts, but all four of these players have a first round grade on my board currently. So I mean, maybe the general ESPN doesn’t know of these names very well, [00:04:00] but people in draft Twitter and like, um, I’m assuming the GMs know who Ryan Rollins is.

[00:04:05] So a little early compared to everybody else. So it’s going to be a fun episode. You’re going to learn about four guys that definitely deserve to be talked about. And, uh, how about you started off with one of your AC boys.

[00:04:19] Dustin: That sounds like a plan. Uh, the first player is Dalan Terry. He is, let me look at my notes.

[00:04:28] Sorry. I’m I have my notes tab up and we have done so many future Fridays where there’s no bolding. There’s no nothing to differentiate. When I started and stopped, I found them Dale and Terry Small forward university of Arizona stands just over six, seven, nearly a seven one wingspan hundred 95 pounds.

[00:04:47] He is 19 will be 20 by the time the draft rolls around from Phoenix, Arizona. Uh, currently number 36 on the Ringer’s big board. Number 31 on Tanka thong. Think Athens big board. I [00:05:00] personally have him in my top 20, um, some season stats from his sophomore campaign at the university of Arizona. Eight points, 4.8 boards, uh, nearly four assists, 1.2 steals.

[00:05:14] Point three blocks shot the ball at 50% from the. Over 36% from three, uh, almost 74% from the line did that in about 28 minutes, uh, in 37 games in a player efficiency rating of 16.9. Uh, this is a player who I was watching Arizona primarily for Benedict Matheran and I’m sure you were as well. And I’m a duck fan.

[00:05:40] I got my duck gear on, uh, today. So saw a lot of Arizona basketball, you know, watching the PAC 12 network. They were a top five teams. So they were on constantly. And this is a player who just popped, like I didn’t, I have never heard of Daylen Terry until this season began, but it was really [00:06:00] reminiscent of when I was watching UCLA about 14 years ago.

[00:06:03] And there was this guard who just out of nowhere, unheralded, uh, unprecedented. Just yammering on everybody, just a menace in the fast break, but that guard ended up being Russell Westbrook. And I’m not comparing Dale and Terry to Russell Westbrook, but I’m comparing the similar feelings I got to when I saw Westbrook at UCLA to what I felt when I watched, uh, Dale and Terry at Arizona, it seemed like his fingerprints for always on the game.

[00:06:32] He had an impact on both ends of the floor, and I really love everything about him. And I did a deeper dive this week on, you know, his film, his strengths and his weaknesses. I honestly don’t know why he’s not being talked about as, as a top 25 top 20 pick. I think he does nearly everything you want from a high level rotation player.

[00:06:56] Like, I don’t know if he projects to be a top three guy. But [00:07:00] if you can get a fourth or fifth starter in the second round, you take that and run, um, to get blazer fans excited. I would say he reminds me, and this is just the first knee-jerk reaction. He reminds me of a modern day, Jerome, Kersey, and I, and I say that because every time he gets the ball or every time he sees a miss shot, he has taken off down the court and he finishes just with so much ferocity and.

[00:07:30] Jerome was an elite athlete who turned himself into a shooter. And the reason I say he’s a modern day, Jerome Cruz, because he has range after three point. Um, he does need to become more consistent with, with that jump shot. But I believe he is a reliable catch and shoot three point shooter and the like Jerome, he hustled his ass off and he’s just a menace on the defensive end of the floor, active hands, uh, great lateral footwork.

[00:07:54] He just fights through screens. He he’s a dog in every sense of the word and the meaning [00:08:00] in NBA basketball. He is exactly what you need, uh, on your roster. And I love, love this kid. I, if Portland had like a 17 or 20 pig and I would scoop him up before he, cause I don’t know if he’ll last till 36, I would feel very comfortable taking him in, in the first round.

[00:08:22] Dillon: I, I keep remembering that TCU game and then I know it was Benedict Netherlands, best game. Terry just had his fingerprints on the game throughout, throughout that entire game. He had those big stops on the perimeter. I feel like Arizona did a really good job with him. I know that he’s his positioning. If you look at like the ESPN has him as a point guard, I don’t truly believe that he is a point guard.

[00:08:48] I think that he has a guard that has ball skills, but is not a point guard. So AC did a good job of not putting so much pressure on him to be the creator of the team. [00:09:00] Like once to Dick Mather and took the reins of that offense. It was his, and Terry just was like the secondary creator. And I think that’s the perfect role for him, but what impressed presses me the most is his defense.

[00:09:15] And I know this, this player is very like because of his playoff performance. It’s a hot button player because of how well he did, but I see the guard version of her Jones and him with his defense. Like one of the great things Willie Green did this year with herb was give him the freedom to bring the ball up.

[00:09:36] I think if you treat Terry the same way that you treat herb, you’re going to see a huge rise in his efficiency on the court, his defensive level, and then you have a secondary or tertiary Playmaker in Dale and Terry. So I, I, I’ve been a huge fan of him. He’s currently like 25 on my board because I just don’t believe that he is like, [00:10:00] when I watch him, I don’t see.

[00:10:02] Second round player. I see a first round guy that isn’t going to be your star player. But with the Portland trailblazers, you have your star player. You have a guy in a few years that can take the reins and ant. So you just need guys that are good basketball players. I don’t think he lasts to the second round, but he’s gonna create a very good value.

[00:10:26] Even if he gets picked at 25, that’s a huge value for a guy late first round, early second. Can contribute to winning and playoff basketball. I don’t think you can take him off the court because he is competent enough from three. And then he adds a point of attack defender, or just a high level defender with what the blazers are doing.

[00:10:50] Potentially with ant and Dane, you need high level defenders to surround them. So if, if we get Daylen we have a high level guard defender. [00:11:00]

[00:11:00] Dustin: Yeah. Uh, a couple of points that, that you, that you touched on, uh, first, since it was more recent about, about the deep defense, I think he. Projects as a potential, all MBA type of defensive player, given his lateral quickness gives him potential point of attack, defender skills and off ball.

[00:11:19] I think he is just going to be a terror. There were so many plays where he would just alert lurk, lurk in the bushes, kind of, so to speak and just pop out of nowhere and take that pass. And, uh, just, just pounce for it. I mean, don’t throw the ball cross court. I just got done rewatching the 92 MBA finals.

[00:11:37] And I, I can’t tell you how many passes were picked off by Jordan and Pippin, just because of how they anticipated the ball. They used their length and their quickness and that they just made life miserable for the blazer guards, trying to get out and transition to have those guys who can turn defense into offense.

[00:11:54] So invaluable. Uh, and then to go back to your point about, uh, Arizona making him a [00:12:00] Playmaker, uh, he essentially was their second point guard behind Benedict Mather in and averaging four cysts per game. Uh, as a secondary Playmaker, I think in college is, is tremendous. Uh, the, he is really good at finding cutters.

[00:12:14] He is a really smooth bounce pass. I feel like he makes the right simple reads in his outlet pass in transition. Nice. Like Kevin Love. Nice. Like he does that more than just one or two times in a highlight video. Like it was a consistent theme that I saw. Like he checks off like so many boxes, uh, in my opinion, that usually when you, you read about a second round prospect or a prospect that is falling, like they have, like, here are their strengths and their weaknesses are like, it’s just a, just a bibliography of just, just a dump of stuff.

[00:12:50] But this player can’t do this, that, or. I read his scouting report from the ringer two minuses, unproven shooter, especially off the dribble, [00:13:00] due to a small sample size and needs to learn when and where to take risks, whether it’s a Playmaker forcing the ball into the paint or helping off of a shooter on defense Sage, that doesn’t seem like a minuses that should deter him from being a first round.

[00:13:16] Pick it. Am I wrong? Dan and

[00:13:18] Dillon: Terry did shoot off the bounce,

[00:13:20] Dustin: but it doesn’t really even that’s, uh, that’s like, that’s like saying whenever I look at, because every player has a minus, so it’s like needs to get stronger. Okay. You can fix that, learn to shoot off the bounce or not do it at all. You can fix that.

[00:13:33] You can either learn to do it, or you don’t need them to, to shoot off the bounce. Like he can just be a catch and shoot player. So it’s just like, I don’t know what scout

[00:13:41] Dillon: and they hit the 99th percentile. Sure. He should hit, hit off the bounce threes, but.

[00:13:48] Dustin: There’s only like what 30 players in the league that can hit off the bounce three.

[00:13:51] So I

[00:13:53] Dillon: kind of liked the aggressiveness because of how unaggressive the blazers defense is. It’s like, all right, now [00:14:00] we have somebody that’s willing to take a risk. And maybe that’s the scheme that has been presented where we don’t. We are very aggressive on blitzing the point guard with a very slow footed and Turkish, but to have somebody that he could pair with and Dale and Terry to just actually make a play is good.

[00:14:20] So honestly, with the blazers, like I’m cool with them being overly aggressive defensively. Sh of course it’s going to hurt us sometimes, but it’s also going to help us. So I’m fine with that. And then aggressively trying to find open teammates with a past.

[00:14:41] Dustin: I mean, I think as long as you’re not trying to thread a needle consistently, that’s not there.

[00:14:45] I mean, we we’ve seen that with, with the use of, um, I, I think you’re willing to live with it. I mean, if you look at the turnover leaders across time, it’s always players with the ball in their hands. Like Steve Nash was a turnover monster, but he was still a two [00:15:00] time MVP because he had the ball so often.

[00:15:02] So as long as he’s keeping the turnovers to a respectable amount and not take, like, I think there’s, uh, a good risk and there is an unnecessary risk and you just, you, you know it when you see it. So I hope that whatever team drafts him really lets him open up and just like, lets him play his game.

[00:15:22] Because I think you talked about comparing him to herb Jones and there were so many things that people said herb couldn’t do or can’t do. And he may never be an all-star Sage, but if you do a redraft right now, he’s going top 10. There’s no doubt in my mind, herb Jones is going top 10 and he’s a perennial all NBA defensive player, potential defensive player of the year type of guy.

[00:15:45] Dillon: Yeah. Uh, do you, do you see the herb Jones comparison and daily there?

[00:15:49] Dustin: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I am like, I watched him and I’m like, what, what are Scouts missing? W w what am I missing? And that’s how, like, certain I am [00:16:00] with, with Dale and Terry, like, I, he just, he popped off film when I watched him over the collegiate season, got reacquainted with him and liked his game even more.

[00:16:10] Um, another case of a player just. Turning it around. And I think you have to give a lot of credit to Tommy Lloyd, the Gonzaga assistant, who went to Arizona, you saw three high-level prospect prospects at Arizona just transform themselves Mather in Dale and Terry and Christian Coco. None of those players were really on NBA radars last year.

[00:16:34] And he and his staff came in, empowered them. Every story that they would talk about during segments was how he just positive reinforcement, empowered them, let them play, let them be themselves. And they led themselves to a one seed in the NCAA tournament. So you can kind of see what type of coaching is going to work with with these prospects.

[00:16:55] And, um, it’s just wonderful to see so many players last [00:17:00] year, maybe had a down year, this year, came back and just are now ready to kind of, uh, set themselves up for life and live out their NBA dreams.

[00:17:10] Dillon: So do you see him as like a tourist. That’s the

[00:17:13] Dustin: beauty with his seven one wingspan. He can play either.

[00:17:16] Dillon: I really don’t see that many minutes for a point guard on this team.

[00:17:20] Since I think that it would be Damon, uh, Anthony playing most of the minutes as a primary Playmaker when they’re in. So having him be able to play one through three and probably defend one through four with that wingspan, like how, how, how many traditional fours are you going to screw up the deal? And Terry, there’s not many in the league period.

[00:17:44] So if, if Jason Tatum takes advantage of Dale and Terry, there isn’t anybody on the team, that’s going to do a better job against Jason data. We’re

[00:17:54] Dustin: going to do a good job against Jason Tatum, either certain players in this league, but you just have to hope and pray miss miss the shot, [00:18:00] or just completely take them out of the game by, by blitzing them.

[00:18:02] Like,

[00:18:06] Dillon: I think it’s time for us to, to scheme up defensively against those superstar. Plus. It’s been such a long time where we have been a competitive team that throws multiple actions at a superstar. It’s been two coaches. I really don’t think Chauncey did a good job of it either. And then Terry stopped obviously with his drop coverage.

[00:18:32] Dustin: You also need the roster to do

[00:18:35] Dillon: it as well. Totally. But

[00:18:37] Dustin: I mean, cause there’s, I don’t know what defensive you can put Eric’s bolster out there and say, Hey, make Damon’s DJ where I don’t think anybody could have made that work. So I’ll just, I think you, I think it is a good, uh, mesh. You need a good combination of a defensive minded coach, Nick nurse coming up with all of these schemes.

[00:18:56] But I think you also do need the tools to, to make that, that [00:19:00] scheme work. So I’d agree with you there.

[00:19:02] Dillon: Well, we, we have toolsy wings currently on the team, within the Sierra and Josh Hart. I think that we can make it happen. It’s just. We never have a wall around the basket. It’s always this, this open area for players to drive on us.

[00:19:21] So with this draft, I think we’re going to take somebody that has some defensive potential in the first and then a guy like Terry would be a perfect mix of defense and offense. And just, you know, that fourth or fifth guy on a, uh, you know, the, the, the last five minutes of the game, the finishing five, because you can’t take away his defense.

[00:19:44] So it’d be, at least we’d have a guy that’s a plus defender outside of use of nurse or kick on this team if he’s, if he resigns. So who we have next is Ryan Rollins out of Toledo. But, um, [00:20:00] what drew me to him was in this raft class, there really isn’t that many bucket getters that have dribble moves. I would say most players right now.

[00:20:11] I don’t have that big of a bag to create space for themselves. So looking at a mid-major guy and Ryan, it was like, oh, he’s dominating this lower competition. And you see it from his rookie year or a freshman year going about 13%, 13 points to 18. So there’s improvement and he’s just dominating this lower competition.

[00:20:35] And, you know, thinking of what the blazers have done with guards from mid-majors was like, okay, I liked the dribble moves. I liked that he can pull up and get his shot whenever he so chooses to. And then usually bucket getters, get this weird narrative where they can’t pass. But when I watched Ryan Rollins running offense, like he doesn’t dribble the [00:21:00] ball up always, but they’ll do like an Iverson cut.

[00:21:03] So he gets the ball in a place where he can succeed and he can run, pick and roll. I remember looking at him. Advanced stats. And he was like an 80% pick and roll, uh, operator. So having a certified bucket and a guy that can run, pick, and roll and create orphans for himself, I think of him as a Playmaker, but it’s not like the Chris Paul chess player knows what’s going to happen before it happens.

[00:21:32] It’s more of what Chauncey Billups wants in a Playmaker in the read react offense where I think most of his passes are off of, oh, this is the help side defenders on me, which means the corners of guys open. I’m going to pass it to them. So to have a guy that’s a mid major guy that I truly trust in running an offense, creating space for himself, getting the ball to players in their positions, [00:22:00] that’s projected to be like 45.

[00:22:03] Last time I looked in Tampa. Just as authentic potential. It makes me think, nah, that’s wrong. It might be the mid-major thing. It might be that he’s a sophomore. But when I look at Ryan play basketball, it’s like, he’s, he’s worthy of a first round. Like, just like when I look at Dale and Terry, this is a first round talent.

[00:22:24] That’s just not getting the recognition that he deserves. So when, when you watch Ryan operate, what, what did you think of his, uh, his scoring in his play-making.

[00:22:37] Dustin: Yeah. Before I get into that, I’ll give a little bio on Ryan Rollins, uh, from McComb, Michigan. Uh, 19 years old will be 20 by the time of the draft, uh, six, three shooting guard, but with, uh, almost six, 10 wingspan, 179 pounds currently 51st on the tank athon big board [00:23:00] had a tremendous, uh, sophomore campaign at Toledo average, uh, damn near 19 points on 47% shooting from the field.

[00:23:08] Uh, just 31% from three 80% at the line, uh, handed out 3.6 assists, uh, six rebounds, uh, 1.7 steals and 0.3 blocks in over 32 minutes, a game and 34 games with a player efficiency rating of 24.7. When I first saw him. There’s so much CJ McCollum and CJ McCollum came out of Lehigh as a 22 year old seen. So clearly it’s not as polished or refined as CJ was back in 2013, but you can see it.

[00:23:46] Uh, he does. He’s not, this is why I think he’s slipping, um, or not considered a first round talent. Like you’re looking at an undersized to looking at a guy who may be not as the best athlete or has the quickest first step, [00:24:00] but he’s learning how to play crafty. And that’s what CJ did. When you watch CJ at Lehigh, you, you noticed how he was able to get his shot off against bigger, taller, faster duke defenders and just lighting people up and had a complete control of, of the game.

[00:24:15] Like I think there is so much value in somebody who can get, get their own shot. And that’s also why CJ his career is, is almost just getting started. Like he’s going to have five to seven more years of really good basketball because he doesn’t rely on his athletic system. It’s not a Russell Westbrook situation with Derek rose situation, where they were reliant on their athleticism to get to where they needed to go.

[00:24:38] Brian is the type of player who, whether you project them as a starter or a perennial sixth man, that you can draft him and say, we want you for the next decade. And you can just be our bucket getter. Uh, he does have some defensive potential. Um, I think

[00:24:53] Dillon: definitely one thing.

[00:24:56] Dustin: Yeah. That’s one thing to not, um, shy away from when [00:25:00] looking at him is the fact that given his wingspan, he can go out there and be disruptive.

[00:25:05] And I think he will have to, um, to make an impact day one, like he’s not going to get the, I would say CJ had the leeway of being a lottery pick. Yes. So, you know, okay. We’re going to invest heavily in the sky. If, if Ryan is a second round pick, you have to do a lot of things to get on the floor as a second round pick.

[00:25:25] And I think, uh, being a disruptor on defense will get them on the floor early. And then if he gets into the right situation, like he seems, he just seems like the game comes easy to him. Game slows down. And I don’t think you can put the competition as a deterrent or a negative. We’ve seen time and time again, mid major players.

[00:25:46] If you produce and you pass the eye test, it typically translates over to the NBA level. I mean, you can even go back to 85 when Terry Porter was drafted. Nobody knew what a Wisconsin Steven’s point was, [00:26:00] but he was taken late in the first round and sure enough, Terry report a two time, all star second best player on one of the greatest areas of all time.

[00:26:07] Damian Lillard may be the greatest player of all time, little Weeber state out of, uh, you know, Ogden, Utah, like CJ McCollum, Lehigh in Pennsylvania. Like if you are a hoop. You can hoop at any level and you just, you, you see it with, with Ryan Rawlins, like he was just making defenders look silly. Um, I do have some questions about, and I think this is what comes with, um, the age and learning the game and learning how to get your shot off in getting more crafty, so to speak to, because right now he does have trouble, uh, finishing at the rim, whether he’s worried it’s going to get blocked.

[00:26:42] So he’s throwing it up early or it is getting blocked at the rim. Like we’ve seen CJ do some incredible moves. He has to do those incredible moves, the finishes off like that. That’s what he learned and taught himself to become so lethal. Like we always talk about the CJ special victims unit. [00:27:00] It didn’t happen right out of Lehigh, but it didn’t happen.

[00:27:02] Year one, year two, like he, he worked on, it became the most improved player. I think we’re at Hollins could, could do that. Like it takes work, but you like the mold, what you can mold him into be like, you like the base, like at 20 years old, he’s already got this. Give them a couple of years, like it may take three or four, but give him some time in a system where he’s getting decent run.

[00:27:24] And I think you’re going to like the rewards. I to have him as a first round. Great, easy. I like him better than a lot of prospects that are,

[00:27:31] Dillon: we’ll do prospects that aren’t AIG or Paulo. I have, I find I

[00:27:35] Dustin: like him better than I might hurt your feelings Sage. So what I like in one spot right now, better than acre as

[00:27:45] Dillon: you break my heart into pieces.

[00:27:47] As we’re talking about Ryan, that bag. I feel like he researches the game because I watched him. And I, I apologize for not knowing the [00:28:00] actual game, but as you research, uh, this late in the year, everything just jumbles up, but there was a time where he pulled an out. You remember the Allen Iverson crossover on Michael Jordan?

[00:28:13] He did that in, in a game. Of course it’s not Michael Jordan getting. His ankles took, but it was like the fact that he’s watching a game from 20 years ago, trying that move and it’s succeeding. I think that he has the best dribble back of this entire class. Easy because he’s got some CJ in his game. He’s got some James harden, he’s got Kyrie, he’s got Allen Iverson having that bag at that age and showing improvement in every game every year that he’s played is hugely important.

[00:28:48] And then there’s just the, the respect to the game to take dribble mood from just superstar players. That, I mean, AI is probably one of my favorite players ever, [00:29:00] but. Like he he’s 10 years younger than me. He didn’t see that shit live. He had to look and do his research to find that dribble package. So that excites me the way that he passes excites me.

[00:29:13] I think that he, he’s not going to, he will be a net negative year, one as a, as a defender. But I think almost everyone outside of Terry and potentially Chet is going to be a net negative as a defender. But once he gets some strength, I feel like he’s going to be a neutral defender and a super plus authentic player.

[00:29:33] Like if he’s your sixth, man, I feel so confident in the fact that there’s going to be good often. Like one of the biggest issues with, uh, Dennis Smith Jr. And, uh, Chris Dunn was, they’re not scaring anybody on the offensive end if they’re on the perimeter. Um, I know that his three-point percentage isn’t good.[00:30:00]

[00:30:00] Take a look at the shots he’s taking. It’s not an easy shot. None of the shots that he takes are considered easy. He has to work for his office. They’re not going to leave Ryan in the corner to catch a shoot. All of these are pull-up jumpers. We’ve seen it go in like the foot works good. The, the follow through the form, it’s all good.

[00:30:21] It’s just a lot. It’s a more difficult shot than a, uh, catching shoot shooter. Like if you’re a stationary catch and shoot shooter that feeds off of the Playmakers gravity, your shots are a lot easier to make. Uh, Mo heartless didn’t take a difficult shot once in Portland because of Dame’s gravity or CJ’s gravity.

[00:30:43] Ryan Rollins on that, on his college team, absolutely had to take numerous bad shots because nobody else was a threat. So the three point percentage, I wish it was higher, but I’m not totally scared of it because the attempts have to [00:31:00] matter. Your three point percentage is great, but if you take nothing but easy jumpers, your percentage should be higher.

[00:31:07] But if you’re taking off the dribble threes, something that I guess Dale and Terry didn’t do, I’m fine with a 31%, three point percentage, because I think the offense is good. And I think the defense is it’s not going to be in that negative when he is in his part. So I currently have hit, uh, uh, Ryan at 24, 1 spot ahead of Dale and Terry.

[00:31:34] For this podcast. He is my number

[00:31:36] Dustin: one guy, my second player from area of comps for Ryan. No CJ light.

[00:31:44] Dillon: Okay. I see cam Thomas in his game from LSU. I see my favorite college player of my teens in him as well. Marcus Thorton. I see two LSUS and then Levi and CJ if he hits his all time. But like [00:32:00] the, the, the microwave shooter, the microwave player, like it’s, it’s a comp it’s a player, uh, that works in this league.

[00:32:10] He gets his own shot and he sets players up for their shot. So yeah, the CJ, the Marcus Thorton, the cam Thomas, like he’s gonna make defenders look. But I’m sorry for interrupting. Let’s go to your second year. All

[00:32:26] Dustin: good. The second Arizona prospect, I clearly liked the wild cats this year. I had them winning the, I had them winning at all.

[00:32:33] Unfortunately, Houston happened and it didn’t happen for Arizona, but I love three of their prospects. Um, especially this last one and where he could be, uh, available. Uh, I’m talking about Christian Calico center from the university of Arizona. Seven feet tall, over a seven five wingspan, 221 pounds. Uh, 21 years of age will be, [00:33:00] um, 22, uh, at draft day from, uh, Douala Cameroon.

[00:33:06] He was the pack 12 defensive player of the year, this past year, and the PAC 12 most improved player in 2022. Currently number 26 on the Ringer’s big board, 32 on Tanka. Thorn’s big board have seen many of mock drafts have Portland taking him at 36 in the second round on the season averaged 12.6 points did that on 63.5% shooting from the field.

[00:33:34] Uh, 73.5% from the free throw line. So a big that can shoot the ball from the line, which is very important. Uh, pull down 7.3 rebounds, uh, 2.8 blocks, just a menace on the glass. A 1.4, 6.8 steals did all of this in 25.4 minutes and 37 games with that player efficiency rating of 28. One of the highest that we have [00:34:00] recorded during our future Friday series a.

[00:34:03] When I look at Christian Calico, I know he is a one way player at this point, but to me, he is the best value big in this draft class. Um, you, you look at a player and I really liked Jaylen Derek. But you’re going to have to spend a high lottery pick to get Jaylen Duren. I’m seeing Mark Williams go 13 to 15.

[00:34:27] That’s asinine to me for a one way player. Like all of the players that I just mentioned are one way D defense at first, Coco is the same. He is a fluid mobile, big who is a paint presence. I mean, he is going to be a rim protector. Um, he’s got pretty, pretty big feet. I don’t know if he’s going to be able to get out there and pressure off of the pick and roll.

[00:34:51] I think he projects more in, in the drop coverage, but what I love about him is he has quickness [00:35:00] and he has length and it allows him to be just a destroyer on the glass. It allows him to erase a lot of shots. Um, good hands. Good. And if there are two things you want to see in a center, it is good hands and good feet.

[00:35:15] And I think you can, you can teach a lot when a big man has soft hands and quick feet. Uh, that’s just, that’s always what I look for. I think there’s still a lot of untapped potential in him as well. Like I know he has an older prospect that mentioned going to be 22 by the time of the draft. But as I mentioned, when talking about Dale and Terry, the staff at Arizona did wonders for him.

[00:35:39] The change from, um, I forgot who was their coach for? I think his name’s Sean Miller to Tommy Lloyd did him wonders. I think there are still more room for him to grow right now. The only offense you’re going to get out of him is the rim running presence. He is a fantastic lob threat. You can lob it to him off of the pick and [00:36:00] roll.

[00:36:00] You can just lob it to him when he’s in the dunker spot. Uh, he’s really knows when to go up and catch that lob as well. You don’t need to give him the ball though. He’s not going to be a post-up player that you just dump it into. He needs to work on his finishing around the basket, but he is a low usage player.

[00:36:17] And when you have players like a Damon and Anthony and a Josh Hart who, who need that ball, it’s good to have a player who I’ll just clean. I’ll just clean it up for you. So why I love him so much is because the, the value for him to fall the 36, like I have a first round grade on him. I, I think if you’re looking for an MBA comp, it’s easy to click a Pella type of big Clint.

[00:36:42] Capella is doing pretty good things for, for the Atlanta Hawks. Um, again, this is why I love talking about second round prospects. I don’t care that I can’t run off and through him, I care that he can defend the paint. I care that he’s he’s mobile. I care that he can rebound the [00:37:00] ball. And I care that he doesn’t need the ball because you don’t, there’s only one basketball.

[00:37:05] So for the fact that he can just go and do his job, do the dirty work and be a defensive first player, something the blazers have desperately needed. Um, I’ll take that in the second round every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

[00:37:20] Dillon: So, you know, before I watched the playoffs, I, I didn’t think his fit in the NBA was particularly good because of the lack of any real offense.

[00:37:34] And then I watched Rudy go bear. And I know that a lot of people don’t like Rudy, go bear. I think that he’s a fantastic defender. And the reason he gets roasted is because his perimeter defenders suck. But you look at what Rudy does and it’s it’s rim run and defend. He doesn’t touch the ball in the paint.

[00:37:55] He gets the fuck out of the paint. That’s. That’s what he does. [00:38:00] He wants to keep spacing open for Donovan Mitchell, even though those two don’t like each other. But I kind of feel like if he’s, if he, if Christian can at least post up, if they do a full switch and score, I have all the faith in the world that he can be an offensive threat.

[00:38:22] Like Rudy go Bair, ma maybe not the passing out of the rebound, but he picks does this pick and roll runs to the hoop hard. If he doesn’t get it, he’ll redo pick, like it’s not going to be the sexiest office. Like I think Jaylen Durran can do some play-making out of the short roll. There’s no way Christian’s doing that in year one through four, it might be, he might develop.

[00:38:45] That’s right now. He’s just Rudy, go bear with this screen setting, rolling to the basket heart, and then providing all of the defensive, uh, blocks and, you know, help side defense and rebounding. So [00:39:00] I know in the playoffs, you see guys like grant Williams, be a DHO hub, or, you know, any of the bigs that we, we, we fiend over do that, but at 30 in the second round of the draft, finding a guy that can just do the yeoman’s work and rebound and block shots, and then don’t get on the other end.

[00:39:24] It’s fine. Like for our offense is still providing a lot of space. It’s worked for the Orlando magic. It’s worked for a lot of teams. So if we run the exact same offense we do with use of, with a Christian. We’re still providing spacing. So I am fine with what he provides offensively and I think defensively, it is a very, uh, high value pick.

[00:39:50] Dustin: Yeah. And I think it’s important to remember that the regular season still counts too. It gets you your spot in the playoffs that determines your match-ups. You need, you need depth [00:40:00] upfront, um, especially with, with COVID-19 you’re still going to get players, injuring health and safety protocols. Um, it, Portland resigns use of neuro that injury history doesn’t magically disappear.

[00:40:10] They’re still a threat that he, um, we’ll we’ll miss time and you probably don’t want to play him heavy minutes throughout the regular season. Um, if you can get a rotational big in the second round, like by all means go out and do so. Like again, I, I still believe there’s this untapped potential. So yeah, if he gets matched up against a.

[00:40:31] Jumping into him. See if he can finish what with, with a baby jump hook or just even a dunk and on the defensive end, like I believe in the athleticism, I think if he, you get him into an MBA training camp and an NBA trainer make him a little more agile and then you might be able to see him go out there and hedge a little bit more.

[00:40:50] Um, I just, I think the value that I’m all about value and if you can grab him at 36, [00:41:00] take that and run because

[00:41:03] Dillon: how much better is Mark Williams than him

[00:41:05] Dustin: on highlight colloquial better? I, I’m not a huge, I, I think the reason Mark Williams is higher is because he’s two years younger. I

[00:41:13] Dillon: think that mark mark has very similar issues to him.

[00:41:18] Yes.

[00:41:18] Dustin: And I think also similar players,

[00:41:21] Dillon: I think both of them. Uh, rotation because I don’t know if Mark’s a starter. I really don’t like there there’s, there’s some major issues with his hips. He is, he is a fast player, a supremely jumpy player. He goes for everything

[00:41:38] Dustin: and he measured. He measured out very well.

[00:41:40] Dillon: I don’t see 30 picks of difference between those two in their

[00:41:43] Dustin: most likely. And then in two spots right now, different on my big board. There’s one player in between the two. So I think they’re very similar, but because Mark Williams is projected to go lottery in colloquia is projected to go second round.

[00:41:54] Give me every

[00:41:56] Dillon: time. Yeah. Like the ceiling might be a little bit higher, but it’s, it’s [00:42:00] not worth literally 30

[00:42:02] Dustin: draft spots. It’s not worth your lottery pick.

[00:42:04] Dillon: I it’s not like I, I have met, I have a lot of bigs ahead of Mark Williams. So yeah, I agree like the, the, the value of Christian is just so much higher than, than.

[00:42:19] Any other big in this draft and less Walker Kessler also falls. So, you know,

[00:42:25] Dustin: I, I have seen him fall a little bit too, so, you know, put in Portland potentially could be getting a good big in the second round of Kessler or Loco UFR.

[00:42:35] Dillon: What’s that? Who do you have higher between the two?

[00:42:39] Dustin: I have counselor just by a notch.

[00:42:43] Yeah. I think he’s a better D a better shot blocker. And I believe he could develop a jump shot, whereas I don’t, I think Loco needs to work on just shooting like five foot hooks. So like, there is

[00:42:56] Dillon: also, I think that they have the

[00:42:57] Dustin: same, like there’s, it’s a [00:43:00] similar, it’s a similar big class.

[00:43:02] Dillon: Jay. I feel like Jalen during has established himself as the number one traditional center.

[00:43:07] You can put shed as a center, but he is not a center. In my eyes because he’s a, he’s a four that’s magnificent. I think Darren has shown has separated himself as the number one center by far. And then a lot of these bigs are very similar. So if you can get a Walker Kessler or a Christian cocoa in the second round, the value you win, you win the value.

[00:43:30] Like if they bust, they bust it. It’s less detrimental than you taking Mark Williams at 15. And that him busting.

[00:43:40] Dustin: All right, Sage, talk to me about your last prospect. Someone who, I don’t know a whole lot

[00:43:46] Dillon: about Tundra Lee from South Korea. Um, he’s a junior, he’s a junior from Davidson six,

[00:43:54] Dustin: seven, two hundred and ten pounds.

[00:43:56] I’m just, I, I do have the bio. Uh, I

[00:43:58] Dillon: never looked at the buyers. [00:44:00] I’m really bad at that. I just looked up

[00:44:01] Dustin: 9.8 points this year on 38% from three 47% from the field, uh, 78% from the line, uh, nearly two assist, six boards, uh, 0.3 blocks and a 0.7 steals in 34 games for the Davidson Wildcats.

[00:44:20] Dillon: So hun John is a absolute flame thrower from three it’s.

[00:44:26] What drew me to him last year. I know that he was a 40 90 guy. So the shot is there. And when you look at just absolute flame throwers, you can really take a lot. Subtract a lot from his game. I don’t think he’s Duncan Robinson, where he is an absolute non-factor as a defender. I’m going to get that out of the way first, but as a three-point shooter he’s, he’s the guy, the type of guy that can shoot off the dribble.

[00:44:59] I don’t think they’ll [00:45:00] happen that much in the league, but he can, he can catch and shoot with the best of them. And then the movement shooting is super interesting. You know, how the duke blue devils did the elevator play for AAJ Davidson did the same thing for hun John. It resulted in some really open threes.

[00:45:22] And one thing that I just love is that he never stops moving. So he always is working the screen, trying to get the correct angle to shoot. He does not stop moving. So I watched that Michigan state Davidson game and he had the defender just chasing them around the hoop and chasing them around the court.

[00:45:43] And then when he got open, he launched and the shot was pure. It, the footwork is incredible. The, the, the shot, the relocation, this is the type of three-point shooter that changes your defensive strategies. [00:46:00] And the fact that he’s not ranked on tango Fon, he’s not ranked in a lot of these other. You know, big, big agencies, you know, it, it shows that they’re not looking at David’s and watching him just work and, um, move he’s six, seven.

[00:46:18] So, you know, most good shooters that are dominant in college are kind of those six foot guys that just speed dribble around and get their shot launch. But at six seven, you can potentially just shoot over players. And if, if the movement skill stay true, man, like he’s going to get a lot of mismatches and just launch he, his passing is actually really good.

[00:46:44] You can’t dribble for shit, but he’s kind of like all the other Playmakers in this draft outside of Ryan Rollins and Paulo where he can’t dribble, but he passes well. So. Because of his movement skills, he draws a lot of attention. So when [00:47:00] doubles happen, he’s very comfortable of passing it to the open man for easy, easy, uh, points, but do not give him the ball and ask him to be the lead Playmaker that ain’t him is offensive is just predicated on that shooting ability and his movement ability.

[00:47:18] But I believe in the shot, I know that the 78 free throw percentage this year was not what you’d want, but I’ve seen it last year. It was a 90% or so. I know the shots there. It was kind of a down year for him, but at 38%, from three as a down year, that’s pretty incredible. Like I know, I know clay Thompson did not have a one good year as a shooter.

[00:47:42] So if the down year for is 38% from three, I’ll take that all day. I. I have them ranked as a first round guy. I know a lot of people don’t, but the shooting that there isn’t that many elite [00:48:00] shooters that aren’t a complete and utter disaster as a defender that failed. Uh, I guess I can talk about his defense.

[00:48:07] Obviously. He’s not a point of attack guy. He’s not the most athletic player in the league. But one thing that I noticed that I thought was really impressive from him was he knew where to be the pit positionality of him on the defensive end, was that a really high level. And I think that being able to be in the right place as a defender, as a underrated skillset, that people just seem to gloss over.

[00:48:30] So he he’s there in the dig position. When the, on defense on help side, he he’s a willing defender. He’s just not the greatest. He’s not a good defender, but as a team defender, as a team defender, he is a high-level guy with positioning, knowing where to be. So obviously you’re not putting them in to do guard LeBron, but if you need a high-level team defender, that’s positionality is good.

[00:48:58] He’s not going to [00:49:00] kill you in that sense. Anything on the ball is going to be bad because I don’t know how many elite fireball shooters also are. Great, great defenders. So,

[00:49:11] Dustin: and with him not having a strong grade, I would say from early Scouts, professional and amateur, uh, among us all, would you be looking at him with our second, second round pick

[00:49:26] Dillon: if we can get I’m?

[00:49:26] Sure. Yes. I don’t think, I don’t think that he’s going to go in the first round, but to have a guy. I think the blazers and pelicans were the two worst teams in spacing. If it was a very cramped a basket. So having a guide that is going to be a rotation guide that can just spread you out and shoot is going to make Dame’s life so much easier.

[00:49:51] An aunt’s life so much easier when there isn’t that cheating guy on the corner.

[00:49:57] Dustin: Do you think he could, um, [00:50:00] well, something he could fill in the Ben Macklemore role?

[00:50:02] Dillon: Yes. I think that he would be a better been back more because he’s taller. I mean then six, four, Ben also could dunk like a motherfucker, but he, the, the, the space between dunking and getting to the hoop is humongous for bed.

[00:50:16] And I don’t think that that part of his game will never be there where he can just drive and it’s dope. So I think that he would fit the bed more, but I think that he’s a better movement shooter than bet it might’ve been Chauncey Billups a scheme, but Ben would just stay in the group. Hunh, John will use use of size and run off ball.

[00:50:37] Like that’s what he did all year Davidson. So if Chauncey Billups in his scheme can actually fit a guy, that’s a movement shooter in, it would be a really a good use of that second round pick or the second, second Outback. But yeah, like high-level shooter, that’s a movement shooter. Like I know people will give him [00:51:00] the adjusted Jefferson comp and that might be an LSU receiver.

[00:51:03] Uh, Jackson, Justin Jackson, sorry, in my mind, Justin, Jefferson’s more important, but I, if I was to give a comp, I think it’s Doug McBuckets, both of them are tall shooters that are good movement guys. And you saw Doug, you get a real bag from the San Antonio spurs and be their starting player. I really see that hun, John can do that for 18.

[00:51:28] And if you guys get a guy that legitimately. To NBA skills and his shooting and his passing at 60 or 58 or wherever where our second pick is you take it. I mean, when you’re talking about second picks, they’re not perfect. So you

[00:51:45] Dustin: talked about for second round players, we will have two for you next Friday, as well as the weeks.

[00:51:53] Um, start to dwindle away as we get, um, into anticipation for the June [00:52:00] 23rd NBA draft as always, uh, give us a comment. Uh, five star review would be wonderful, greatly appreciated. Um, Sage, anything else?

[00:52:13] Dillon: Oh, that should do it. Um, I just hope the blazer. Actually take good players with their second round picks.

[00:52:20] I know that I

[00:52:21] Dustin: don’t want them throwing those pick those, those picks are valuable,

[00:52:25] Dillon: most draft, poor team and lead, I think yeah. With how we’ve traded the first round picks for nothing you have to use these picks. And if they’re not home run picks, it’s fine. It’s the second round. Just get good basketball players.

[00:52:41] The four players that we’ve mentioned are good basketball players. They fit roles as a shooter, as a creator, as a two defenders, like out of the four players that we mentioned, three are two-way players. And I’m sorry for hunt John. He is not, but he also is the best shooter in [00:53:00] the second round. And honestly, I would say that he’s a better shooter than AIG Griffin.

[00:53:05] And you know what I think about agent like the ability to be a movement shooter is a very rare thing to have. He’s there at our second, second round pick. I think it would be a very smart move to take on John. So yes, uh, 48 minutes of competent basketball, real, real players, not these, these fraudulent, like, I guess that’s a mean word say, but not these potential players that haven’t shown anything in the second round.

[00:53:37] Just hit a single that’s fine. And we’ve been pretty damn good at drafting. Second round picks in the last decade with all of the, the hits that we’ve had.

[00:53:48] Dustin: Yes. Portland, maybe more so than any team does a really good job historically of taking a second round picks and turning them into two gold. Like we talked about cliff, we talked about Jerome, [00:54:00] a trough and Petrovich was a second round pick or, or even later, uh we’ll we’ll Barton Allen crab, pat Konitz and Gary Tran Jr.

[00:54:08] Like

[00:54:09] Dillon: Jake ligament got a second round second. Uh,

[00:54:15] Dustin: Paul Millsap was a second round pick. I know I desperately wanted Paul Millsap in that, that oh six draft. I was like that guy can rebound rebounding translates, draft him didn’t happen. But Paul Millsap is still playing basketball 16 years later. So you, I mean, we have it on wax. I was a big supporter of J Crowder and Draymond green.

[00:54:34] Both of those players, amazing careers. You can find absolute studs in the second round. Don’t throw these picks away Portland. I

[00:54:42] Dillon: mean, shit like Malcolm Brogdon. They thought he was too old here. Yup. I just want Cronin. He has, he has safety. He has a four-year contract do the due diligence. Like I know that he just [00:55:00] interviewed Benedick Mathern and I approve of that.

[00:55:02] And then he also did the other guy who I don’t want to mention, like, do your due diligence go to this Gili. Go to the G league, uh, combine and do your research on guys that are in the second round because they will help you last thing before we wrap it up. But I know I, we, we did a false start on ending.

[00:55:26] Does the combine affect anything for you as a draft evaluator MI?

[00:55:33] Dustin: Um, probably only positively. And it’s just in measurements, like if a guy has a longer wingspan, um, but then you also have to say, okay, this guy’s had this wind spin this entire season and I’m selling used it. So it’s wonderful to say Mark Williams has a fantastic wingspan, but okay.

[00:55:52] But he still played what he played. Like you still have to use the tape, you still have to use your eyes. It’s like, it kind of goes back to, uh, Kenny pick it at the NFL [00:56:00] draft when he’s like, oh, he has the smallest hands of anybody. He was the man for pit. Like he was a Heisman finalist. Like I watched him like throw a regulation football in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania weather.

[00:56:11] Pretty damn well. So no, not really. Like, it’s cool to be like, oh, that guy measured up better. So I guess like it projects a little bit more, but I don’t know if I would make a decision based solely off of what the combine numbers

[00:56:25] Dillon: tell me, you know, like I remember Johnny Jews Ang and he absolutely killed it in the final four.

[00:56:32] And then he went into the combine and kind of got exposed, but we knew that he had these issues the entire time, but having it be exposed in front of everybody kind of was I believe the reason that he returned to UCLA. So I guess it can be negative, but these players have. Games of tape out there. And if you’ve done your due diligence and watched, you know, a good amount of them, you know, the player.[00:57:00]

[00:57:00] So it shouldn’t really matter. But of course it will. But yeah, for me, I don’t, I, I don’t, I don’t use combined success or play a pro day success. Like if you can’t make most of your three-pointers in an open gym, you should not have had your agent do this. You know what I mean? Like if you can’t hit wide open and all your decision points is shooting it, like you play the game, you play the game before when you get the ball and you’re open, you have to make a decision.

[00:57:35] So that decision adds another element to your, to, to your shot. So wide open you have in an open gym, you have no other option. You’re shooting it, but in a real game, there’s no. Okay, there there’s grant Williams getting an open shot and being able to look at the floor for two seconds. But most of the time you, you make that split second decision.

[00:57:57] And that is another reason why I’ve [00:58:00] shot MIS. So if you can’t make it on a wide open gym, you shouldn’t have had your agent do this. So, uh, use the 30 games of evidence as your reason why this player is good or not. Instead of

[00:58:14] Dustin: the stock into the, uh, Personal team visits. Like we heard Damien absolutely wowed, you know, the ownership and head coach and just put on, even if it was just Damien, like you could just tell you, you can put a player even in an open gym setting, but how do they care?

[00:58:32] Uh, carry themselves. How did they show up? Um, how did they handle it? Like, yeah, maybe, uh, an open gym, but you still have a GM and owner and a head coach, all looking at you evaluating you on this one opportunity. How do you look? Do you let the pressure get to you? Reports had Kevin Duran shot the shit out of the basketball hot, one of the best, uh, uh, team days of all time for the blazers.

[00:58:54] Odin was, uh, just a mediocre team. Th they, they went with it. Like, I’m not, I’m not saying that’s [00:59:00] why dura ended up being better than Odin, but like put some stock into that because there is pressure, especially when you have lottery picks coming in, because these guys don’t want to slip. They, they, they don’t want to lose money.

[00:59:11] Uh, the further they dropped, the more money they lose. So like, do they show up in shape? Like, do they look cut? Like, do they look like they’ve been putting in the work? Uh, can you notice maybe something that I would take is like, when you see that tape, was there an improvement that you wanted to see them make?

[00:59:26] And did they make that improvement from the end of the season till, you know, June workouts? So you remember the

[00:59:30] Dillon: depth of a cell shot change? Yeah. From like, like some of the shit should not be shown on a public to the public. And I think that, like, the fact is most likely you and I will not be there to look at any of the things.

[00:59:48] I mean, like 99%, we won’t be there to look at any of the workouts. So like, no media is closed. So we’re doing that where you just have to [01:00:00] rely on what we’ve seen from these players in their actual,

[01:00:04] Dustin: it is wild though. I worked for the team and I was there for the 2013 draft workouts. Every time a group would come in and go in afterwards and interview them, would it not?

[01:00:13] I have photos on my camera roll and it’s like, they’re Steven Adams and a blazer Jersey. There’s Rudy go bear in a blazer Jersey. Like it’s, it’s, there’s obviously CJ McCollum was there. I believe Mason Plumlee was there. It’s just like going back and seeing these like, oh, like, like what type of, what if so it’s always like when you get the guys in for your pro days, it’s, it’s really like, there’s obviously Kevin Duran in the Placer Jersey.

[01:00:36] I was like, oh man, what if like, so you gotta make the right pick. You don’t want to have to, you want to see them in the real Jersey, multiple times throughout the rest of the next decade. You don’t want to look back at a picture and, you know, just like the one that got away.

[01:00:50] Dillon: All right. So, uh, I think we can wrap it up.

[01:00:52] Uh, no more false starts for me. Um, for the rest of the podcast. I wanted to ask you a question. That’s why I [01:01:00] stopped myself, but, uh, thank you so much for listening. We are outta here. I’m going to get some lunch.

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