[00:00:00] Dustin: all right, everybody. Welcome to the 270th edition of the wholly backport podcast. I am Dustin here in rip city and I got my man.
[00:00:18] Dillon Sage: So age here, ready to talk about this? Very, very athletic. Shooting guard out of Purdue. How are you today? Good, sir. I’m doing
[00:00:28] Dustin: well. Uh, I always enjoy these, these lunchtime recordings.
[00:00:32] It’s a nice kind of break in my day. I get to chat with you, uh, about the draft and prospects, which is actually one of my. Biggest things I enjoy nerding out about. I almost enjoy it more than watching other NBA games, uh, just because I like to see what the future is and how these, the prospects are going to, to turn out there.
[00:00:54] There’s a kind of a, a little bit of a thrill in it for me, like looking back and be like, I was right [00:01:00] about that player. Like there’s something. Enjoyable that I get inherently about this being like, yeah, I, I could be a scout and there’s other times like, holy shit, what was I thinking? I was so far out of left field on this other prospect.
[00:01:15] So it’s fun to kind of hone your own skills and find the traits that translate looking for red flags, but looking for things that players can do rather than talk about things they can’t do. Uh, so. We are going to be discussing a very special prospect, a prospect who has now taken this draft class from a top three to a top four, a four player draft class.
[00:01:41] Just the way he has been performing this year, as you mentioned, uh, he is from Purdue university. He goes by the name of Jayden Ivy. He is a 6, 4, 200 pound guard. He is 19 years old. He will be, uh, 20 by the time the. Uh, it takes place this [00:02:00] June. He is from south bend Indiana. He was a four-star by rivals and the number 79 player nationally in the class of 2020.
[00:02:12] He chose. Purdue over the likes of Butler, Indiana, and Notre Dame. Uh, you know, this, I know this, but our audience may not. His family runs on basketball and sports. Uh, his mother and Yale is the head women’s basketball coach at Notre Dame. Um, she’s been an assistant coach with the Memphis Grizzlies. She was an All-American basketball player at Notre Dame.
[00:02:39] I believe she was playing with the Indiana fever of the WBA when she gave birth to Jayden. Um, so Jayden grew up around some of the all-time great basketball players at Notre Dame. Uh, Skylar Diggins, Enrique, a Google wallet, jewel Lloyd. He has basketball kind of pumping through his veins. Like most people from Indiana, Indiana is a [00:03:00] basketball state.
[00:03:00] They live and breathe the sport. His father was a sixth round draft pick of the Baltimore Ravens in the 20 or 2002 and NFL draft. So. It’s in his
[00:03:13] Dillon Sage: DNA, his mother and father both went to Notre Dame. I don’t know, Notre Dame, let him go to Purdue. Like he was in their backyard. They probably should have tried a little harder to get just a really fascinating prospect with all the tools that you want.
[00:03:33] Right. Most likely
[00:03:34] Dustin: shooting guards to be fair. Uh, Purdue is a damn good team. They are currently a fourth in the polls. Uh, both the coaches and the AP poll. They are 15 and three. They will probably slide down just a bit. They suffered a close to feet at the hands of the Indiana Hoosiers, uh, yesterday in Bloomington.
[00:03:56] But that Purdue team is, is legit. Probably the [00:04:00] best team that I have seen with my eyes this year, in terms of their depth, their size, their skill, uh, the different facets that they can really attack a team with. Uh, there’s a lot of consistency there. You know, head coach, Matt painter has been there, uh, since 2005.
[00:04:15] I mean that Purdue program has kind of been built around consistency at the top. In the nineties. It was all about Jean. Obviously people remember Glenn, big dog Robinson coming out of redo being that number one pick in 94, and then they made a really smooth transition into mat painter. So it kind of made sense for him to go to produce, still stays in, in the state.
[00:04:36] But yeah, it’s, it’s a big miss right now. If you’re looking at, if you’re a Notre Dame Irish fan, because there’s so much lineage there in history and you see this player, who’s probably going to be a top four pick in the draft and, uh, Just let them slip through the cracks. It happens. And it’s a,
[00:04:55] Dillon Sage: I had no idea where Purdue was located zero
[00:04:59] Dustin: now, you know, [00:05:00] because it was a Jayden ID.
[00:05:02] Dillon Sage: Yeah. It was like somewhere in the Midwest. I have no idea. How many, how many, uh, Purdue games have you watched so far, man? Three and a half.
[00:05:12] Dustin: I have watched a highlight package. I have watched, uh, the big 10 network is putting out. I think, weekly features on Jayden Nivea, very similar vibes to the licensed, to Lillard, uh, content that we saw Damon his agency put out, um, in the.
[00:05:32] 20 20, 20 12 draft cycle. I watched this game that we are going to be discussing against North Carolina, and then I watched yesterday’s game against Indiana, the full first half, and then a detailed highlights from the second half. And thankfully, uh, what we’ll be talking about now, I think still relates to how he’s playing at the, at the time of this recording, which is, uh, the 21st of January.
[00:05:55] And, and through the 21st of January. Uh, here are the [00:06:00] statistics for Jaden Ivy. He’s averaging 16.7 points. Uh, doing that on 48.5% shooting from the field. 42.4% from downtown 74.7% from the line is grabbing five boards handing out two and a half, 2.9 assists. All in 29.3 minutes with a 24.7 player efficiency rating.
[00:06:26] Did you say,
[00:06:26] Dillon Sage: I feel bad about this. Did you say it’s three point shooting percentage
[00:06:30] Dustin: 42.4% freshman
[00:06:32] Dillon Sage: year Jay Nivea was a really poor shooter and then he really brought his shooting up to. I don’t think that 42% is going to happen in the league, but he is a respectable shooter. Now there was times where he was like the microwave guy, but now it’s actually consistent.
[00:06:50] He is a good shooter, but I think the number one skillset that we have to talk about is his athleticism. I know there there’s a lot of athletes that play basketball, but I feel [00:07:00] like he utilizes his athleticism. The best I’ve seen in a long time. He definitely has a straight line speed. But when you see him on cuts and movement, you see that elusive speed that he has, that it reminds you of those super quick point guards in the NBA.
[00:07:19] Do you think. He has the dribbling ability to utilize that wonderful speed to create Ms. Smashes on the defensive
[00:07:29] Dustin: end. He’s a secondary Playmaker and ball handler. I don’t know if he’s going to project to be that lead guard, which again, I think makes him such an interesting prospect to evaluate, you mentioned his athleticism.
[00:07:41] I thought that jumped off the page, right, right from the jump. I mean the first play of the game. He comes off of a curl, one dribble, and he’s at the rim finishing with his right hand and he’s already gotten MBA body. He can finish through contact. It doesn’t look like it’s slowing him down. He doesn’t look like he’s too.
[00:07:59] You [00:08:00] talked about his, uh, speed and quickness. Uh, you notice it on the curls for infra. Sheila was calling this game. He even pointed it out, like watch how he moves off the ball. He cuts with a purpose and he really makes his defender kind of play honest defense. He’s not just going to kind of stand in a corner.
[00:08:19] On the other hand, when he has the ball in his hand, you’re right. It is very, right-hand dominant. It is very much a, a one dribble straight line move that he’s going to have to improve on. But my God, the quickness with that first step it’s lightning quick, and he’s the type of player that I felt like.
[00:08:41] Took over that game in the second half, without a ton of usage, she was playing the passing lanes. He was, you know, just making quick decisive plays. He he’s not, I didn’t get the sense that he’s just going to go up, go out there and Chuck up a lot of shots. You can’t really do it with this Purdue [00:09:00] team.
[00:09:00] They are incredibly deep. They have to probably all conference bigs, um, Zack ed and trivia. Uh, Stefan NAWIC probably has maybe the quickest release from three, but that I’ve seen in a long time coming out of college. Uh, they, they are loaded. And I think in a way that plays to his favor because he’s learning how to play winning basketball, and he’s not having to do everything by himself.
[00:09:26] So he is able to let the game come to him and. To your question, he’s going to have to improve his ball handling. He’s going to have to improve his, his decision making. He, he loves to jump pass, especially on the break. Um, so that’s why I think he, like, when I, when I came into this game, I was like, okay, he’s he’s 6, 4, 6, 5.
[00:09:46] He’s gotta be a point guard. No, I think he’s a two guard that can play. He’s a two guard that can play make, he’s not a point guard in the sense of, I don’t think you’re going to want him to be a leader.
[00:09:59] Dillon Sage: I think he can [00:10:00] bend the defense. I think again, the paint then the defense. But when you get to that point where he bends the defense, it’s kind of a question, mark, what is he going to do after that?
[00:10:11] I don’t know if he can play, make out of that, that the rotating defense. There’s some, there’s some place where it’s like he straight line drives the. And it’s an obvious read where, oh, I’m getting doubled or tripled. I can pass it to that shooter and it’s going to be an easy pass. Boom. But I don’t think that he’s going to find that window as he’s driving straight line speed.
[00:10:38] I think that his dribbling is good enough, but I think that his mentality of I’m getting this dunk might make his dribbling look worse than it actually is because there were some stop start dribbles. There were some nice moves that he made to get to the straight line dunk. He kind of plays too. He kind of plays like NBA two K and you have unlimited [00:11:00] turbo.
[00:11:00] Dustin: just, it is a lot of turbo and I think he’s going to need. Harness that, that a bit and channel it because there were times where he looked a little out of control on derives. He didn’t seem to know what he wanted to do with it. Once he got to the cup and he kind of threw up some off-balance looks, I think that’s where he has the room to kind of grow and learn what he wants.
[00:11:25] Like, I don’t know if he really understands just how athletic he is, if that makes any sense, like, here’s what I can do. Okay then let me do this. Like, let me start to build my counters because right now there isn’t a counter it’s it’s one move and here’s what I’m going to do. So once he gets more time on the court continues to play, continues to grow.
[00:11:45] I mean, this, even as impressive as he. So far this year, he’s still like in 19 year old prospect with a lot of room to grow. Like this is not a finished product by any stretch of the imagination. [00:12:00] And I did see that potential. So every time we do these future Fridays, my number one thing is. Flashes of brilliance.
[00:12:10] And I try to mark the plays that really kind of stand out to you because anytime you draft in a lottery, you need a player. That’s going to provide those flashes of brilliance. That what could be the norm for them as they hit their peak. And there were really two plays that. Um, illustrated that beautifully for me.
[00:12:29] And the first one, you just kind of touched on it in the first half of the game, he had that stop start dribble. He was able to free up the defender. He stepped back into an open three, which was pretty smooth and effortless from him. That’s a big time NBA move. I mean, that’s what you’re going to have to do as a guard in this league with the ball in your head.
[00:12:49] In the second half he had backed the back place where he ran the brake, got the ball from his, his guard and just flushed it home. Got the crowd energized [00:13:00] as they were going up. The court picks the pocket at half court and he just. Ended in another breakaway slam. So in the span of about 15 seconds, he completely turned the tie to that game.
[00:13:13] Just with two energizing plays. Uh, Carolina was on the verge of making a comeback. Nipping at the heels of Purdue had led the entire way up until that point. Ivy said no. And those are the type of plays that you need from a potential superstar. How are they going to. Impact the game, how are they going to kind of stop the bleeding and, and what do they, how did they respond to adversity?
[00:13:41] I think he really did a lot of those things with, with the ball in his hands, which is so impressive, especially in today’s NBA, where I think guys who can perform with lower usage are just ultra Ray. Uh, and just so necessary because you can really [00:14:00] only have one ball dominant player. I think on the court in today’s free flowing, uh, space and pace game.
[00:14:07] Dillon Sage: So do you believe in the shot? I looked at his feet and that might be the. Yeah, his jump shot. So when he made it his foot work and how he shot, it looked great. I don’t think that he’s going to be like a movement shooter, like a Desmond Bain or like a very active pull-up shooter. But when he stands still and his feet are straight, it looks good, but there’s some times where he misses and his feet go every which way.
[00:14:37] And that’s when I noticed, oh, I looked at the feet, they don’t look, it looks like it shouldn’t go that way. He’s missing this shot badly. So do you trust that his shot will be consistent enough to be like I’m a above average shooter
[00:14:52] Dustin: in the league? Yeah, I, I noticed the shot. He has decent form. It looks a little mechanical.
[00:14:58] I think it could be a little more [00:15:00] free flowing. I think the release needs to be quicker. I do agree with your assessment. I don’t think you’re going to see a demo of a Booker or clay Thompson coming off of screens and just catch and shoot. He definitely needs the space and time to get his shot.
[00:15:15] Thankfully, he has the athleticism to keep the defense at bay, which allows him to have that time and space to get the shot off. I think his job is going to be palatable. He’s going to be a streaky shooter. I don’t think he’s ever going to be a knockdown shooter, but when you look at players, um, I think Jamia rant is a really good comparison in how his shot has evolved.
[00:15:37] Like he’s no longer a player that you. Or just saying, okay. Shootings if he takes the shot. Yeah, but he’s, he’s not gonna, his bread and butter is not going to be as jumper. His bread and butter is going to get to the lane. And he’s going to keep you honest with his shot. Can it candidate improve? Does it need work?
[00:15:56] Yes. Especially if he wants to have a [00:16:00] lengthy career, because as we know, once you hit a certain age, that athleticism starts to drop and you’re going to need to be able to beat the defense other ways. So. I think if he gets work, continues to put the time in he’s already made pretty good improvements. But I think if you’re looking at least through that first contract, John Moran, it’s kind of a good, uh, status quo to keep in mind when thinking about Jayden IB in terms of the jump shot, like he’s going to have off nights, but I think if you do give him space, he can hit.
[00:16:31] And even in, I know we’re talking about the North Carolina game. But I watched the Indiana game yesterday. And in that second half, he really took over and it was primarily from downtown. He had a lot of shots that were defender in face and he was able to pull up and hit. So I think he’s going to be a bit of a streaky.
[00:16:50] But that that’s not where he’s going to, uh, that’s never going to be his calling card.
[00:16:55] Dillon Sage: Yeah. I remember watching, I think it was in this tournament last year. He came in off the bench and [00:17:00] hit nine points in like 45 seconds. So we absolutely has that microwave ability. It’s just, it’s not going to be the consistency that you want from a shooter.
[00:17:10] Okay. It’s kind of half, has to be that perfect environment for him to shoot. Like you, you see Dame and he, he shoots and makes it in some messy, messy environments. I don’t think that you can have like shooter, uh, defenders flying at them, but if a defender flies ahead of them, that’s the plus plus plus situation for him.
[00:17:29] Cause he can use his athleticism and make something happen. Um, I, again, this, this might be. From knowledge that I have for watching three or four games, three and a half games, I watched part of that Indiana game. I feel like his point of attack defense is great. Like the way he fights through screens. I don’t think that his like, footwork is great at fighting through the screens, but he gets through it cause he’s strong enough athletic, but the part of defense [00:18:00] that I think he is pretty bad at.
[00:18:03] Help side defense. I don’t think he is going to be a good teen defender. I think that he just is more of that point of attack guy, which hell we need pretty badly, but he can’t be point of attack all the time. And I, I I’ve seen him get back, cut to, to hell and back a quite a few times. So how do you feel about his defense?
[00:18:23] I mean, the way he uses, uh, when he’s engaged, the way he uses his athleticism is very, very impressive.
[00:18:31] Dustin: I mean, he moves incredibly well laterally that’s step one. And, and to becoming a, a perennial, all MBA type of defender is players that can move side to side, um, and stay in front of, stay in front of their, their, their man.
[00:18:46] So I think he, as, like you mentioned, he has a really high defensive potential on on-call. I personally haven’t seen enough off ball in the, in the games that I have seen. His either, either Matt painter is putting him on a [00:19:00] player that they know is not going to get the ball or, or teams aren’t really attacking him.
[00:19:08] Like, there’s a lot of possessions where he’s, you know, he’s still engaged, but he’s just like, the play is the way from him. And his man is maybe he’s conserving his energy offensively. That’s their strategy, but I need to see more. Um, just because the college game is so different, they are posting up there.
[00:19:23] They’re dumping it in down low. Uh, there’s not as much pick and roll. So, um, I think for me, it’s personally too early to tell about how he’s got. Off-ball the on ball. I think he has all the tools that you would look for in, in, in a good defender on the perimeter.
[00:19:39] Dillon Sage: I think that he’s a really good scheme fit for what Chauncey Billups and Roy Rogers want to do, especially in pick and roll coverage because of his athleticism.
[00:19:47] And because, because of his height, they put guards as a low man to defend the rolling big, right. I think the Jaden have a much better. Chance at making [00:20:00] that defensive stop, then CJ McCollum or Damian Lillard. I think he is kind of a scheme fit everywhere except potentially off ball defense for the trailblazers.
[00:20:12] And that’s a definite bonus when you know that this guy has all the tools to be a good defender in your.
[00:20:21] Dustin: I think the most excited I get when I watch Ivy, is it in the open court? Like I noticed every time there’s a rebound, he puts his head down and he flies down in the court. It reminded me of watching Jerome Kersey and all of those old highlights.
[00:20:36] As soon as the ball was rebounded, Kersey knew where he needed to be. He knew where he wanted the ball and he flew down the court. And conversely, when he hit the ball in his hands, it was like I was watching Russell Westbrook. He even has that, that skip and start. He’s got that push and it looks like he’s just moving the court with them.
[00:20:54] And he there’s just like a gravity, a gravity to him in the open court. [00:21:00] Special and you, you almost hold your breath every time he has the ball in his hands, or someone else has the ball and he’s getting ready to finish because, you know, he can finish, uh, either with the ball on his hands or off of a lob.
[00:21:12] So it’s. There so much excitement and like highlight real potential when it comes to Jayden Ivy on, in the open court,
[00:21:23] Dillon Sage: how did you feel about his unnecessarily cool passes that he makes on the fast break? Did you see those jump passes that he completely and totally unnecessary for that given plate, but looked so fucking cool.
[00:21:39] I have a note in my shit. Holy shit. He passes so cool.
[00:21:47] Dustin: I mean, I do think a lot of it comes back to. Doesn’t really understand how athletic and fast he is. And so when he’s like, oh shit, what do I do? Okay. Maybe [00:22:00] I’ll just jump in, hang out in the air a little bit. Oh yeah. Then, then I’ll pass the two. So that’s kind of the, the avenue I went towards.
[00:22:07] Other other thought could be, he loves to jump pass. And so I don’t have a problem jump passing. If you have a direct eyesight into who you’re passing and nobody is going to be. It’s the it’s the past is where, like, I didn’t think he was on the brake in the first half and he just stopped at the free throw line, turned around and then like shoveled it underneath to us to find the bits for the three.
[00:22:28] And I was like, I really hope he knew he had that trailer. Otherwise he just got bailed out.
[00:22:34] Dillon Sage: If, if your team is willing to have a shooting guard with all those tools, he got. Return a whole lot of value. And I think the wonderful thing about this class is there’s arguments to be made about Jabari going one.
[00:22:50] Paulo Jayden, and then even Johnny. So like th th this draft is different than the last two where you knew that lamella and aunt [00:23:00] and James were going to get drafted. You knew Cade, Evan and Jalen were going to get drafted one, two, and three in some work. And this one, it really depends on like, you know, what the evaluators think is the best one.
[00:23:14] I don’t think there’s a clear cut. Clear, cut. One. In this raft and that makes it interesting for people like us that are you evaluating talent? Like there’s so many different games and body types and how they play. Like, I would say the four players that we’ve reviewed. They all play basketball and that’s about it and their games.
[00:23:36] There’s nothing really similar between, uh, Jabari and Paulo. They’re six, 10 and play basketball. And that’s where their similarities. Then this is a very fun draft class to really dive into early comparative to what we do in the past.
[00:23:52] Dustin: So if we are both projecting Jayden Ivy as a shooting, Who are some point guards or [00:24:00] archetypes of point guards that would best work alongside him and compliment him?
[00:24:05] Dillon Sage: I feel like you got to have a legitimate pull shoot or like Damian Lillard. Like you need somebody to help space the floor. If you’re trying to. Make him look as good as you can. You need to have that space. And he, he can’t drive the lane on what the blazers spacing looks like today. You need to have shooters around him so he can put his head down and drive.
[00:24:29] So I think Damian Lillard would be a really great pairing for him. It’s just, you got to space the floor with them. So I would have like shooters surrounding him. So you can give, give him the best chance at using what. Gifted with a
[00:24:45] Dustin: athletic. Yeah, I think there are kind of two types of guards that I think would work really well.
[00:24:53] Um, going a little bit more old school, Terry Porter, uh, I thought he played fantastic alongside Drexler. He was able to [00:25:00] space the floor, pull up. He was the primary ball handler could run a pick and roll pick and pops. He knew where to get his, his players, uh, spots, and then old more recent, uh, Steve Nash.
[00:25:14] Steve Nash kit can probe find and also keep the defense on a space, the floor, you know, catch and shoot, um, players who can create, but also space. And I think that that’s what you need. You need as much space to let the athletes like, you know, and Nivea room and give him the most, give him the most, you know, Landing room, basically like, like an airplane coming down to land.
[00:25:41] He needs that, that runway give him that runway and he’ll make a lot of things happen. And I think there’s just a benefit to that because he can also help out his point guard because he is a secondary Playmaker. He can drive to open spots. And he can take the ball handling burden off of that point [00:26:00] guard.
[00:26:00] And we’ve seen teams that work well, have multiple ball handlers have multiple decision makers. That’s something that Portland has been lacking. I think really in the entire Damian Lillard era has been additional Playmakers and ball handlers. So Ivy doesn’t have to be the primary ball handler. It doesn’t have to be appointed.
[00:26:20] Well, he can get the job done. I think you just need to find the right fit next to him because you need complimentary players. So they all work together in unison and they kind of bring up the collective group, uh, as the whole. So
[00:26:33] Dillon Sage: if we got lucky and Jay Nye is on the board, do you think that he and Anthony can play well together?
[00:26:40] Or is that a, a good fit? I there’s no way Norman Powell can play on the same team. Let’s say Damien and Jayden. They’re just, they’re too small, but what do you think the fit is with Anthony?
[00:26:58] Dustin: That’s super intriguing [00:27:00] because I think Jaden is definitely the two. I would be willing to give it a season with.
[00:27:05] Uh, to see if Anthony Simons can become that primary Playmaker, you know what he can do. He can space the floor, which is, which is, you know, kind of, it checks off one of the boxes, but can he be a enough of a Playmaker? Because right now he committed
[00:27:20] Dillon Sage: Playmaker between those two. I would go at Ivy, honestly, and I, and we’ve spent like the one red flag about Ivy is he’s
[00:27:27] Dustin: not a good playmate.
[00:27:29] Yeah, that’s why I would give it a year or two. I mean, Simon’s a still incredible young, uh, a full season running the point that there is opportunity to grow, especially if, you know, that’s maybe more of what your coach is looking for. That’s more of your role. Yes. You can go out and get 40, but we may need you to get 20 and 10.
[00:27:46] So. I’ve seen Anthony do it. I mean, all you have to do is go back to that game against the Kings to close off the 2019 season making some passes that I don’t think we’ve seen him make sense, but maybe just let him know this is what we need, and this is how you can [00:28:00] compliment. I don’t think it’s like, I don’t jump off the page.
[00:28:03] It doesn’t jump off the page to me. It’s like, yes, this is like the best fit, uh, possibly. But just talent-wise in size wise in potential wise. I think you have to give it a couple of seasons before you say no, this isn’t it. They both fit in that same age range of growing together. Uh, I think you would be a fool not to give it at least chance.
[00:28:27] Dillon Sage: And then Damon, he Damon Jayden,
[00:28:30] Dustin: would that be that obviously is a little bit, uh, better than ants. Clearly you have the.
[00:28:38] Dillon Sage: High leverage spot. Those two guards would work well together. I
[00:28:42] Dustin: think Dane is the greatest Playmaker, but he’s a damn good Playmaker. Like he’s not on the level of, of a Steve Nash or a Chris Paul, but he’s smart.
[00:28:51] And I think, I don’t think it’s a perfect fit, but I think it’s a pretty dang good fit. That’s a better fit than anything that blades. [00:29:00] At the moment.
[00:29:02] Dillon Sage: And if I was the guy CJ has gone, Norman’s gone. And we’re running with the aunt Ivy and Lillard, uh, back court, which would be interesting. I don’t think that it would be a three guard lineup.
[00:29:16] I think I would come off
[00:29:17] Dustin: the bench. I think if, if you, if you get high enough and you’re sold on Jayden IB, three of those four guards are gone. I mean, you’re clearly moving in a direction where you want to be. You’re starting to pass the pen. Do you want to go Simons or do you want to go Willard? And then.
[00:29:35] Move off the others. That’s kind of, I know people are going to listen to this and kind of roll their eyes. Oh God, no, the six, four to the six five guard. But
[00:29:44] Dillon Sage: because I definitely didn’t think he was six.
[00:29:46] Dustin: He plays like a big guard, plays like a big strong kind of a throwback guard. In my point of view, I actually
[00:29:54] Dillon Sage: want to hear your comp form.
[00:29:56] Cause I, we might have a similar one
[00:29:58] Dustin: I have got, so [00:30:00] this was probably. Aside from chat, which I don’t think it’s really possible to cop out right now, just because of the size in weight, in skill, um, on both ends of the floor. I be took me a long time to really find comparisons at his floor, his middle in his ceiling.
[00:30:23] I think what I love about this prospect. The floor is still pretty high, really high ceiling. You kind of watch prospects and some you’re like, and I’ll just throw this name out there because that’s how I felt there was like a Kelly Oubre Jr. Like he was really highly rated coming out of high school. You didn’t see a lot at Kansas, but you’re like, he could be good, but you’re not certain.
[00:30:49] Well, he turned out to be pretty. When I watched Jane Ivy, there’s just has a sort of it factor for me that I feel like he’s going to hit as a prospect. So my floor is. [00:31:00] Because I think pretty high, um, in terms of a floor and he reminds me of an Eric Bledsoe, Rodney Stuckey type of player, he’s got the body of that blood.
[00:31:11] So had coming out of the Kentucky, not blood has bulked up coming out of Kentucky. He still had an MPA body, but he was very athletic. Very. Uh, Rodney Stuckey also had a lot of athleticism coming out of Eastern Washington had a pretty good career where he had a string of seasons averaging like 13, 14, 15 points per game was, I mean, both players can play the one, but they are 6, 4, 2 guards.
[00:31:38] So that’s where, where I, I went with the, the floors. I think they’re going to. Uh, similar impacts. So I still think he’s more athletic than both of those players, but in terms of size, skill and types of career, that’s my floor for him. Where’s your floor at?
[00:31:54] Dillon Sage: I had a, my Miami heat, Josh Richardson. He had.
[00:31:58] God-given [00:32:00] athleticism. He developed into a good shooter, but he was always the two, not the three. And then I had a throwback that I was really scared about writing down because I could be wrong, but I thought of the athleticism and Isaiah rider blazers. Great. Just, he was never the point guard. He averaged like two or three assists a game, but God damn it.
[00:32:18] He was athletic and could make some things happen downhill. And with his, uh,
[00:32:26] Dustin: Who is your middle of the road? 75th percentile.
[00:32:30] Dillon Sage: So this is where he developed some sort of play-making and he becomes deer and Fox with that speed. They’re both not the greatest Playmakers, but he’ll get the job done and be, I think, a better attitude, deer and Fox, because the Aaron’s always had that.
[00:32:48] Problem with the role, like he had it in Kentucky with Malik monk. He wanted to be the alpha. He has it in Sacramento with Holly. He wants to be the alpha. I think Jayden’s willing and ready to, uh, [00:33:00] pass it off and let someone else be the alpha, but he will be at his time. And if I’ve called them Jaylen or Jayden, I’ve been watching Jaylin Duran and holy shit that they’re different, but those names are very similar.
[00:33:14] So if I’ve misquoted his name, I apologize.
[00:33:17] Dustin: My 75th percentile is, um, Victor depo. All-star version of Victor old Depot. Uh, I remember loving him coming out of Indiana. Again, both, both similar builds, both played so well in the open court. Uh, both weren’t known as. Both or two guards, uh, all the Depot for, uh, uh, participated in the slam dunk contest.
[00:33:40] I mean, he’s always been crazy athletic. I remember when I worked for the blazers, it was the 13, 14 season. So his rookie season to kind of illustrate his athleticism. You had second year Damian Lillard going in for his patented, like one hand kind of turns sideways dunk that he always [00:34:00] loves to do. Well, the Depot met him at the top of the back board, uh, the square and just kind of like grabbed the ball and took it away.
[00:34:08] One of the best blocks I’ve seen in person. So to give you an idea of how, I mean, I know a lot of people think of visceral Depot now after injuries, but all the Depot in Indian pre-injury, all-star very, very, very good player. I mean, never, probably going to be a first or second all NBA. He may sneak in a 13.
[00:34:29] They’re definitely an all-star maybe two to three time all-star so I think that’s like on average, I think that’s where Jaden, Ivy comps out at. If you do like, you know, a hundred, a hundred simulations, that’s the, probably the. The one, most likely my opinion
[00:34:46] Dillon Sage: when we’re shooting for the stars. I, I definitely see some Dwayne Wade in him with the athleticism and the skillset.
[00:34:55] So that’s like my hundred percent tile outcome. I think Jontay [00:35:00] Marie a faster is a very good. 90th percentile. I think should get a most improved. And then he’ll be an all-star a few times, but I think Dwayne Wade, if we’re just shooting for the stars, I th I see a lot of Dewayne and Jane
[00:35:20] Dustin: Dwayne Wade was also, I had a, I had a hybrid, so dereg was part of that hybrid.
[00:35:25] I remember him coming out of Marquette. I mean, he was nicknamed flash for a reason, just super quick and athletic. Um, again, a two guard that could handle the basketball. And that’s really where I went with these comparisons, like who are some shooting guards that could handle, but we’re never going to be a lead initiator, the player that I want that I just, I kept going back to and I kind of had to like tell myself, no, but then I was like, no, this is the player that I kind of think he could.
[00:35:56] It’s a 65 version of Clyde Drexler. [00:36:00] Drexler Drexler was a Playmaker with the trailblazers. It didn’t have the prettiest shot. It was a stand still shot as well. He had a, he had a hard one line drive, head down with his right hand, but you knew he was going to get to a spot. He could rebound. If you could fill up the box score.
[00:36:17] He, he took over games without taking a lot of shots. Um, the, just the athleticism in terms of. Throwing down those dunks. I think Drexler was a more smooth and fluid player. And I think, uh, IB was a more quick player, but just from what I saw in terms of, okay, this guy, he, he may have a bad shooting night.
[00:36:38] He’s never going to be the best shooter. They kind of, you know, need a little bit of space to shoot. Doesn’t have a lot of dribble combos, but there is a lot of potential for Jaden IB to fill that box for. So I really think. The quickness of Wade, maybe a smaller version of Drexler. If he hits, you’re getting a hall of fame, [00:37:00] top five shooting guard of all time.
[00:37:01] I mean that, those are what those two are. Those are the top five shooting guards of all time. They have similar attributes. And again, that it was a shooting for the stars. But when, when I was looking at Ivy and I was thinking back, I was like, you know what? We really haven’t seen a player in the NBA.
[00:37:21] Light Clyde Drexler since Clyde Drexler. And I was like, I don’t know if he’s exactly like him, but there are a lot of similarities. And if he’s even able to grow another inch, I mean, w watch out.
[00:37:35] Dillon Sage: Yeah. I feel like Ivy has much better. I think you might be a little too low on his dribbling. I think that he can’t, I think he can dribble pretty well.
[00:37:46] I, I, I D as you were explaining your ideas for the comp side, I was like, I get it. I definitely get it. He just needs to be 6, 5, 6, 6. Cause I feel like Claude used that, that, that height for his [00:38:00] advantage, a lot of the times, especially in the nineties when it was way more physical, I think that that extra inch might be, might mean something, especially with athletes being bigger, stronger, faster.
[00:38:15] But I, I definitely do see the similarities and the comp, um, were there any other players in the, uh, the game that
[00:38:22] Dustin: caught your eye? So we were talking about the Purdue boilermakers taking on the North Carolina. Tarheels Purdue one that matchup 93, 84, um, Ivy played 34 minutes, 22 points, 10 rebounds, six assists, two steals, just one turnover.
[00:38:42] Shot eight of 17 front from the floor. So he was the player clearly that stood out the most to me. But if you’re looking for, I think a Miami heat type of steel guys who just come in and know how to shoot, and then they work around him. [00:39:00] I really love Sasha. Stefanovich she’s a fifth year senior. There’s not a lot of potential there.
[00:39:06] He kind of is. He kind of is who he is, but. He can get his shot off so quick. He has such a range. He moves with the ball. He just feels like a Kyle Korver type of nightmare off the bench that when he comes in, you have to pay attention to him. So for that ability alone to free up other players. Um, I hope he gets a, a, a, it look it in the second round because I like Dunkin Robinson, I believe, was on drafted, uh, Miami stoned, uh, max Struse, who I’ve never heard of until he was with Miami.
[00:39:45] Um, it just feels like a heat type of player. So if, if Miami gets Sasha stuff, Uh, just be in for 48 minutes of pain because they know how to find shooters. He was the guy that I was like, yeah, he’s [00:40:00] got an MBA skill set and to be a bench player and lead, you have to have an MBA skill set and he definitely has one for sure.
[00:40:07] Dillon Sage: Thank you for letting me have.
[00:40:10] Dustin: I, you can have trivial. I, I’m not a fan of treatment because I think
[00:40:15] Dillon Sage: like
[00:40:16] Dustin: it’s kinda just Swan again. It’s Caleb small again, and I’ve
[00:40:19] Dillon Sage: seen how it to be heard again. Okay. I’m ready to be hurt again by a big that can pass. Well, I think that his game is more diverse. Like I think that Trayvon’s is better prospect than Caleb.
[00:40:32] I know that’s a very easy comps to achieve. I
[00:40:35] Dustin: think Caleb went, Kayla was the big 10 player. What first, our first round, like they have similar builds the same number. Like when I was watching the game, I was, I had to like double-take to start the game, like three or four days. I was like, is that, that literally looks like Kayla Swan again, both physically and how he performs on the court.
[00:40:58] I think Trabian [00:41:00] Williams is a fantastic college prospect. He has great vision, but
[00:41:05] Dillon Sage: the Purdue team very, very low
[00:41:09] Dustin: scoring and was a great passer too, but you’re not going to dump the ball into him and let him shoot his hook shots that that’s not going to, to work. I think he’s worthy of a second round pick.
[00:41:23] I am just, if I had never had seen Caleb Swan again in the MBA, I would be stoked on him as a prospect to, I I’ve just, I think that’s exactly who he is, but you clearly see something
[00:41:35] Dillon Sage: else, which is totally fine. I think that he is one of those guys. I know that his body shape doesn’t look like what you want in a center, but he performs some.
[00:41:48] Things that NBA teams need. With the DHO operator, a good passer. He has shown the ability to shoot. He did not do it in the game that we currently watched, [00:42:00] but he is a good player. I am not saying that he is a starter level player, but I am saying that he provides a lot of things that NBA teams need off the bench.
[00:42:11] I think the NBA. Especially the Portland trailblazers have done a really bad job of feeling out the bench. I think Nilo his main thing was. We need to get the best starting five possible and fuck this batch. But I think 48 minutes of competent basketball is a really powerful tool. We just lost to Miami with 48 minutes of competent basketball.
[00:42:37] Treyveon is going to be a rotation big in this league. I’m not crowning, I’m a starter, but he will be a useful rotation, big with his passing and his defense and his, uh, uh, shit. I shouldn’t have flipped. Passing first because I was going to be my last thing. But post his post work, he is a good player. I think he will help [00:43:00] 18 do well off the bench
[00:43:04] Dustin: stage.
[00:43:04] Can he guard the pick and roll in space
[00:43:07] Dillon Sage: statistically? They said he can. I don’t, I don’t think so, but that,
[00:43:12] Dustin: that’s just what I think teams are going to attack it. I think he has the ability to, like, I think he’s one of those players, like an, like an, an NS where he’s going to give you something, but he’s going to take away something.
[00:43:25] Dillon Sage: don’t think he’s as bad as ENESTFreedom defensively. I think he’s fine. I just, it might be my thing with bigs that pass and
[00:43:35] Dustin: score soft spot for it.
[00:43:38] Dillon Sage: I do. But I think that he is, there’s an absolute chance. He turns into Caleb. Absolutely. But there’s also a chance he’s helping a team like grant Williams.
[00:43:51] Did you watch grant Williams at Tennessee? Those two did the same thing. Like
[00:43:56] Dustin: Williams moved better. Yeah. [00:44:00] That’s what you have to be able to move. So that’s,
[00:44:03] Dillon Sage: I mean, I think he’s a better prospect than the bigger center that I forgot his name. Uh, Zach giddy. Yeah. I, if, if we had a second round pick, I would take a chance to Treyveon like, we need to start grafting, good basketball players.
[00:44:17] And even though you have red flags about him, he is a good basketball player. He is better than some of the bigs that we’ve played in the last five years because of Neil OSHA. Absolutely. He might be one of the best passers in the draft class.
[00:44:34] Dustin: Um, I’m not, I think he is a fantastic passer. I, I just, I worry that he’s not going to be able to move at the legal level if, if this were, if this was the nineties, absolutely use a piece of lottery pickup in my mind, because everything you want, if he can slim down a bit and become a bit more laterally quick.
[00:44:52] So he’s passable on the defensive event where teams aren’t doing. Picking on him constantly. If it’s, if it’s [00:45:00] more of just like, oh, he’s out there. All right. We’re not going to really attack him. But if we get the chance we might, if it’s just one of those, like, I think you can live with that as a team.
[00:45:10] It’s when you have guys like, like Ennis, where it’s like he’s on the court and they are going at him every single time. He’s going to have to prove that he can get some stops. And there’s only one way to find out was as getting drafted and. And making that happen. I do think he gets picked clearly. I think he was the big 10 he’s all, all conference off the bench.
[00:45:28] I mean, he’s a very effective, um, a lot of college players, college bigs drew Timmy from Gonzaga is another one Luca Garza last year from Iowa, get put up numbers in a collegiate level against a different skill set, a player. They’re going to have to figure out a way to transform their game a little bit to play in the league where it’s bigger, quicker, faster, stronger.
[00:45:49] Everything better.
[00:45:50] Dillon Sage: I trust Treyveon Trayvon proved me. Right.
[00:45:56] Did you, I didn’t notice anybody from North [00:46:00] Carolina, did you?
[00:46:01] Dustin: No. Yeah, I think it’s, it’s kind of north Carolina’s really fell off from, it was good to see her birthday. Yeah, that’s cool that program’s kind of, kind of taken a bit of, Duke’s getting all their prospects there. There’s no real NBA talent coming out of Carolina.
[00:46:21] Um, they’re one and dones don’t look good then that you start doing well like this year and, and Cole, Anthony both looked terrible at Carolina,
[00:46:30] Dillon Sage: like awful space.
[00:46:34] Dustin: Yeah, but that I think players are starting to realize that, like, I need to go to a place that’s going to get me drafted. Especially if you’re going along and done, like who, who can get me into the league, who can get me high, who can showcase me.
[00:46:46] Dillon Sage: And then,
[00:46:50] Dustin: then you’re starting to see players like, like Jayden Ivy, who he’s going to get drafted from Purdue. And like, you can go anywhere. Uh, if you’re, if you’re a good player, find the system that, that [00:47:00] best. Fits you and you going to make you look the best. Um, so I think I player for smart. I mean, there’s social media has been kind of a game changer.
[00:47:09] You don’t just have to go to a blue blood program to get noticed anymore. So I think Carolina’s got, got some work to do, but there hasn’t really been a prospect in the past couple of years where I’ve been like, oh, we got to catch a Carolina game.
[00:47:24] Dillon Sage: Yeah. It’s mostly been duke. If we’re talking about the Carolina.
[00:47:28] Yep. Yeah. Um, thank you so much for listening. Do you have anything else you want to say or are we off to, uh, watch some Johnny Davis state?
[00:47:41] Dustin: Yeah. Uh, well, first of all, this is our, before we wrap it up, this has been our fourth future Friday. We have discussed, uh, Jabari Smith from Auburn, Palo Benchero from.
[00:47:53] Chat Holmgren from Gonzaga. And now Jayden Ivy from Purdue. I’m ready to rank them one [00:48:00] through four. What is your, what is your one through four with those prospects that we’ve talked about so far?
[00:48:06] Dillon Sage: Um, number one. Uh, Jabari number two, goodness gracious. I, I, I, I remember saying this on, uh, an old, uh, future Friday that there was a big space between them.
[00:48:19] I think the space is less than w um, I think that it’s Jabari Chet Paulo, and then Jaden.
[00:48:28] Dustin: Hmm. Interesting. I will go Jabari. I agree. I think that space has widened, uh, really
[00:48:39] I mean, let’s not talk about Chauncey Billups on this podcast, please,
[00:48:42] Dillon Sage: because I think that he’s got enough play-making for a four, but the second they think about putting them at the three, it ain’t good enough.
[00:48:52] Dustin: All right. So I add Jabari barring one. I have Jaden IB two. Ooh. I think he is [00:49:00] exactly what you want out of a, a two guard.
[00:49:03] If you can find. The right point guard with him. I think he gives you something a little bit different and I know you think shooting guard you’d want a guard to be able to shoot incredibly well. But a lot of players in the league can shoot. So you can find that compliment at the one what he does. I think what made Drexler and Wade so special was he fills up the box court and he can impact the game without the ball really in his hands.
[00:49:31] And I just think that’s so magical. I think that’s so important. So I hit him it too. I would probably, I think, need to watch more of. How low, but I would go check it at three just for the potential and then Paolo for just because I think he’s probably the most NBA ready, but after watching him, I was the least high on him coming into that future Friday.
[00:49:59] Like, so [00:50:00] we’re going to watch more, but as of right now, I’ve got Smith, Ivy home grin,
[00:50:05] Dillon Sage: you and I have been living in the Pacific Northwest. Ever now he’s from Seattle, Washington. I think that because of the pandemic there wasn’t shit to do from in the Pacific Northwest. So he didn’t play high level ball.
[00:50:25] And I think that really negatively affected when I watched Paulo pre pandemic. He was a problem. Jabari Smith lived in, uh, Georgia. So he got to play basketball and that really helped out his game. I think if Paulo actually got to play high level basketball, I think the, the rankings that you did would be a lot different.
[00:50:51] I’m I’m willing to take more of a chance on Paulo because I did, I could not sleep the other day. So I just watched Paulo high [00:51:00] school, uh, tape. This is a different dude. This is a much different dude than the guy that I saw. So I’m willing to be more flexible on him just because this pandemic is absolutely real and it affects everybody.
[00:51:13] Why couldn’t it affect a, a basketball prospect in his development? Because when I saw him at duke, I thought the processing speed was slow. But then when I watched him in high school was like, oh, this is a totally, completely different player than I was. Witnessing in our first game. So I think there’s definitely, uh, an opportunity for us to watch a lot more Paolo because I think that he is a much better prospect than we saw at duke in, in game one at duke.
[00:51:43] Dustin: All right. I think that about wraps it up stage, let our listeners know where they can find this podcast
[00:51:47] Dillon Sage: at, and we are available on iTunes, Stitcher, Himalaya, podcasts. Um, we are on Twitter. Uh, it’s D has 22 and the same. And then [00:52:00] wholly back board or wholly back for PDX for the holy back board. So, uh, follow us on Twitter.
[00:52:07] We’re out here. We were providing two podcasts a week, so we’re, we’re really grinding here. So thank you so much for listening and we’re out. .